i know a lot of people like to say they dont get scared when watching a horror movie, but thats the reason why i go, is to feel that fear, otherwise why go? dont be ashamed of being afraid, there isnt a single being out that, that has never exprineced fear, enjoy it, watch it, know it for what it is
Saturday, July 23, 2011
Narcissistic traits
Thomas suggests that narcissists typically display most, sometimes all, of the following traits:
An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them
Detesting those who do not admire them
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they really are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude
Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissismHotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:
Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.
An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them
Detesting those who do not admire them
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they really are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude
Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissismHotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:
Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.
Narcissism
Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
The term "narcissism" was introduced by Havelock Ellis (later developed further by Freud in On Narcissism) after Narcissus who in Greek myth was a pathologically self-absorbed young man who fell in love with his own reflection in a pool. Freud believed that some narcissism is an essential part of all of us from birth. Andrew P. Morrison claims that, in adults, a reasonable amount of healthy narcissism allows the individual's perception of his needs to be balanced in relation to others. In Spanish, especially in Spain, where psychoanalysis is not used in public health, the word "narcissism" has a different meaning, i.e., "overindulgence at considering one's faculties or acts". Thus, the term "healthy narcissism" is replaced by "healthy self-love".
Some experts believe a disproportionate number of pathological narcissists are at work in the most influential reaches of society, such as medicine, finance, and politics.
Healthy Narcissism
High outward self-confidence in line with reality
May enjoy power
Real concern for others and their ideas; does not exploit or devalue others
Has values; follows through on plans
Healthy childhood with support for self-esteem and appropriate limits on behaviour towards others
Destructive Narcissism
An unrealistic sense of superiority ("Grandiose")
Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit
Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse
Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course
Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others
The term "narcissism" was introduced by Havelock Ellis (later developed further by Freud in On Narcissism) after Narcissus who in Greek myth was a pathologically self-absorbed young man who fell in love with his own reflection in a pool. Freud believed that some narcissism is an essential part of all of us from birth. Andrew P. Morrison claims that, in adults, a reasonable amount of healthy narcissism allows the individual's perception of his needs to be balanced in relation to others. In Spanish, especially in Spain, where psychoanalysis is not used in public health, the word "narcissism" has a different meaning, i.e., "overindulgence at considering one's faculties or acts". Thus, the term "healthy narcissism" is replaced by "healthy self-love".
Some experts believe a disproportionate number of pathological narcissists are at work in the most influential reaches of society, such as medicine, finance, and politics.
Healthy Narcissism
High outward self-confidence in line with reality
May enjoy power
Real concern for others and their ideas; does not exploit or devalue others
Has values; follows through on plans
Healthy childhood with support for self-esteem and appropriate limits on behaviour towards others
Destructive Narcissism
An unrealistic sense of superiority ("Grandiose")
Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit
Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse
Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course
Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others
we r one
Although today, Buddhism is viewed as a religion by many of its followers, the early Buddhists sects were either strongly atheistic or agnostic. The atheists believed that rather than "God having created man in his own image" it was man who had created "God" in his image. In their view, the liberation of humanity was contingent upon humanity shedding the delusion that "God" existed.
Moral Issues of Prostitution
Copyright 1999-2010 by Mark Evan Prado, All Rights Reserved.
Notably, I get quickly notified of copies of tracts by the CopyScape / CopySentry automatic search engine & notifier.
Short quotes are often OK and can be approved, if there is a clear reference and web link back to my website from the quoted material, and if you send me a short message. I try to help people with good intentions, and try to help the world. Not thieves. Links back to this website are helpful for sustainable progress, thank you!
Please have honor and class by following intellectual property and internet protocols. Be a good kind of person in life.
It's an Economic, Not a Moral Problem ... Usually
First of all, the most common kind of prostitution in Thailand is an economic, not a moral, issue. Most prostitutes come from the poor farming northeast ("Isaan") and speak a Thai-Lao or Thai-Khmer dialect. They have a 6 year government education from a country school (after that, it's not free). Their employment options are $100 per month jobs in factories doing 6 day weeks at long hours, or similar employment ... or far more money hanging around foreigners, getting exposure and learning real life things, and hanging around with their friends.
Most of them send a big chunk of their money back home to their family. Most don't take drugs or even smoke, and many don't drink alcohol.
It is cultural arrogant of people from wealthy countries to come here and preach about morality. Try having their background and their options.
In comparison, in rich countries there are many "matrimonial prostitutes", i.e., women who prefer to marry a rich man who will support them rather than work for their own money, pursue a career of their own, and find someone with a similar purpose in life, similar interests and similar values. Many people in rich countries never have enough money, and are very materialistic. That is more morally questionable.
However, in Thailand there is an increasing trend of young students entering prostitution in order to buy fashion items. There are also prostitutes who are addicted to gambling, alcohol and drugs. Plus there are scammers. Like the matrimonial prostitute, this is a moral matter of values and interests, not an economic necessity.
Forget Reform or Purpose
The vast majority of ladies who have been in the prostitution scene, and stayed there for more than a few weeks, cannot be reformed.
I've heard countless arguments from guys who have taken on a prostitute as a ladyfriend or wife and who defend them. In the vast majority of these cases, the relationship doesn't last much longer. Few have lasted. The guy is then reminded "I told you so!".
I don't want to dwell on the exceptions. The issue here is the 80%+ rule of relationship failure.
However, this does not mean that 80% are bad people. Not at all. It's just that they aren't going to be what the guy wants them to be. They have their own life, and they are free to choose which guy to marry. It is a fact that while going week to week you see mostly the same girls working in the bars, on the other hand if you leave the bar area for just 6 months and return, most girls have gone. Where did they go? Often, away with a new exclusive boyfriend / husband.
Even if no boyfriend (and many bargirls do not want another husband or boyfriend or any such dependency), I have known via friends and associates a lot of prostitutes and ex-prostitutes who I found to be responsible, good people who are sending money back home, don't do anything unethical, and are in completely understandable decision situations.
Most ladies in prostitution have at least one child and no husband -- a boyfriend or husband who just walked away and takes no financial or other responsibility. They are single parents. (I might question their choice of boyfriend/husband, but I've made foolish choices of girlfriend in my life, too, when I was a teenager.)
I have a huge amount of respect for prostitutes who save money and not only leave the profession permanently with no desire to return, but who also try to improve their life, e.g., by working to help their husband as homemaker or starting their own business such as selling clothes on the street or opening their own salon or whatever. There are many of these ex-prostitutes.
However, most prostitutes are lazy and just live day to day.
I'm convinced that the select population of career prostitutes are those who have certain personality tendencies.
Look at how they get introduced into the trade, who stays, vs. who doesn't follow thru or who quits soon thereafter. Many, many ladies have a trusted childhood friend who has a lot of money from prostitution, has become more sophisticated, and helps their family (usually). This childhood friend often introduces more ladies from the village to the trade. Some friends turn away immediately when they see how she's making her money, and some others may try it once and quit. Others will slowly try it but stay for awhile, hopefully finding a rich foreign boyfriend. However, some try it and dive right in enthusiastically!
Those who stay tend to be extroverted, sensational rather than intuitive, lazy and don't think much. For example, they often like to gamble. Gambling and prostitution are often associated with each other because they are both thrill activities. Not far away is usually drugs. These people will not occupy themselves with self-improvement activities, but will just take the next reactive, easy thrill.
The typical prostitute will never run a business of her own, or even do the home laundry or dishes. Anything that requires self-discipline and real work is not something they're going to do. They will sit around and watch TV all day until it's time to go to the go-go bar or pickup joint to get screwed -- "make money on their backs". Even if factories paid more, they would not go work there.
These ladies have no purpose in life, and if they're not getting screwed then they will be vegetating in front of the TV or hanging around playing cards and gambling. So they may as well provide the occasional relief that some busy guys need.
From the Thai perspective, their main purpose in life is to serve working men by providing sexual entertainment, to bring skilled foreign men and tourist money into Thailand, and to bring their money into the countryside.
The differences in education and experiences between the man and the lady is often vast.
People's personalities don't change. Maybe the children of prostitutes will become more productive members of society (especially if they're raised in a different environment), but the prostitutes themselves will not, in the vast majority of cases.
The difference between a typical prostitute and a typical mainstream lady are like night and day. (However, you have exceptions in both categories.)
A lot of foreigners consider paying 1000 baht for sex to be cheap, and they don't care what the lady does with it. I look at it this way: The typical university graduate starts at a salary of around 10,000 baht per month, or 500 baht per DAY. Why should guys be paying ladies that kind of money to lay on their backs and spread their legs? Look at how a lot of those ladies blow money -- taking taxis instead of buses, partying with friends, and so on. If they were sending the money home, that's different. The choosy ones don't get a customer every day, so they get a higher "consultant's pay scale". When I do people watching, and talk with ladies, these are the kinds of things that go thru my mind, and perhaps my own moral judgements / opinions.
In any case, it's a free world out there, and as long as they aren't bothering anyone else, and all this is consensual private business, then live and let live. Wildlife. Animal Planet: Showcase Sukhumvit. It's their background, subculture/personality, and realistic profession options. At least they're contributing some service to the GNP as entertainers (and exporting for foreign cash influx) instead of sitting at home watching TV and mooching off of siblings.
Postscript
I get a lot of positive feedback from this section, from both veterans as well as men who are new to Thailand. Based on feedback by email and the web form, the positive and neutral must outweigh the negative by somewhere around 50:1.
However, I also get criticisms, some of the messages very negative, judgemental, and even hateful. I use criticisms to improve my own viewpoints as well as to improve my website, but sometimes I think the improvement needs to come from the other side, and I feel sorry for stubborn people stuck in a cycle of negative emotions and bad attitude, who just don't see the light.
Some men say I put down bargirls too much, relative to mainstream Thai ladies. Maybe I do, but I respect bargirls and freelancers who are not scammers, and understand their options in life.
Some Thai women say I put down Thai women, with some saying that I imply all Thai women are bad like bargirls. (They didn't read much, did they?)
Some foreign women say I denigrate women.
My American girlfriend (when I first arrived) commented about the sweet attitudes and small bodies of Thai ladies, and then exclaimed "I hate Thai ladies!"
Some foreign men and foreign women try to put me down for even discussing prostitutes or Thai ladies in the way I do. I guess it is THEY who have a need to put down others, and show off how good and high status they are, by trying to put ME down.
Besides attitude problems, it is obvious that many of the people who send criticisms have not really read what I have written, or else read it with such a bad attitude and filters/blinders that they did not really comprehend what is written.
For example, I don't put down Thai women. Quite the contrary. I point out that prostitutes make up about 2% of the Thai female population, but just concentrate themselves where the business is, which includes a few square kilometers in the tourist and expat concentration areas in lower Sukhumvit and in Pattaya, out of all of Thailand, and make clear that mainstream Thai ladies are generally the opposite -- very conservative, trustworthy, and not promiscuous. However, I don't think I put down Thai prostitutes in general, either. Sure, I put down scammers. However, I don't put down prostitutes in general. There may be a mismatch between foreign guys' expectations and what the lady can or will provide naturally. But who is to judge who is at fault in a relationship that does not work out? Many prostitutes are good people. Just different situations and values.
Sometimes, I feel that people are venting their anger on me, when the source of their anger comes from another experience in their past. Like the employee who goes home after a bad day at work and kicks the dog. "Displaced aggression."
Some people want others to agree with their own political opinions, and tend to be a bit opinionated.
Run a website of substance, and you are sure to attract some heat (and envy, sometimes even obsession, but that's another topic...).
Let me just discuss a few things here:
First, anytime you discuss male-female relationships and sex, you will breed controversy. Many people have emotional reactions to these topics, for various reasons. It's largely instinct.
Many of the negative judgements I receive tend to be self-righteous or based on cultural arrogance.
The majority of the negative feedback comes from females (but most female feedback is not negative, just understanding -- I don't want anyone to infer that most females give negative feedback, because that's not the case!). I suspect that many of those people have frustrations with their own relationships with members of the opposite gender, or other sociopolitical agendas.
Secondly, any website guide which aims to discuss Thailand in a balanced way, and which tries to help people coming to Thailand to work and live, must cover the relationships between Thai ladies and foreign men, especially the most common kinds of Thai ladies who you find with a large sample of foreign men working and living in Thailand -- former prostitutes (or current prostitutes). If I avoided this subject, or told people what they wanted to hear, then I wouldn't be discussing Reality.
I'm not promoting prostitution, or Thai ladies, and I get no benefits from them. I have a guide to Thailand, and people are reading my website because they are already interested in Thailand. The Thai girlfriends section is just one section out of many about Thailand.
Third, this is the human experience, and consenting adults are free to do whatever they wish, as long as it doesn't impose on anyone else. If you feel that you are being imposed on, well, it's a big world and it is easy enough for you to go elsewhere to avoid this.
You can't change the world to be what you want it to be. It is better to accept the things you cannot change, and be tolerant and understanding. This is one of the good things about Thai people which makes this country so nice -- Thai people are tolerant. It is impolite to criticize and talk badly about people who are doing no harm to others. In the Land of Smiles, Thai people are understanding, compassionate, and not prone to arguments, relatively speaking.
I am a relatively nonjudgemental person. I try to understand the human experience and the great variety of people in this world, which includes what goes on in the expat concentration areas of Thailand. I try to help people. I have a background as an analyst. Also, I have a lot of compassion for people, and I try to understand a wide variety of people very different from myself. Often, what's right for me is not best for them, and vice versa, though I do try to understand others, and often in my work and social life I learn a lot vicariously. I like to learn and understand. I'm not going to tell other people how they should run their lives. That goes for both foreigners and Thais.
Yes, there are a lot of prostitutes. Most of them come from very poor backgrounds, mainly from "Isaan", the poor northeast. Try living there. Try making it in this world with a farm background and the standard 6 year government education, at a country school. Try having the option of working on the farm or else for $100/month in a factory doing monotonous things for long hours 6 days a week. If you don't want the free market of prostitution to exist, then what are you doing to create an alternative solution? I have volunteered for charities, and I worked for the US Agency for International Development (which is what originally pointed me to Bangkok, Thailand, the Asia regional office) at lower pay rates than I was offered to work for the purely private sector. I have "paid my dues". Have you walked the walk, or only talked the talk?
I've also had my experiences with western high society "matrimonial prostitutes" and ladies "dating rich guys", i.e., women who are attracted only to rich and successful men, both directly (though I never married one) and vicariously via many friends and associates. What's the difference between that and having an ex-bargirl Thai girlfriend?
I'm not saying either one is bad. Different people have different options, and it's all consensual between adults.
If some guys want to come to Thailand and have Thai lady, or many of them, that's their choice, and the ladies' choices. Most of the guys and most of the ladies are not so stupid and naive as to not know the basic risks, consequences, and benefits of these encounters, though they may not fully understand what's involved or each others' cultures and behavioral norms. I try to help the guys understand. (Also, I help the ladies understand when I talk with them, but they don't read English language websites, so I'd waste my time writing for them.)
Contrary to some complaints, I don't think I encourage guys to do one thing or another. There are different ways to analyze one's situation and options, and what a guy or Thai lady chooses to do depends mostly on their own values -- what is important to them. Not your values. I'm not going to impose my values on them, and I think many of them would not think highly of arrogant, inexperienced and self-limiting critics.
Sure, I have my own opinions and preferences. A lot of that comes out in this website. You are free to have yours, too. But think twice before trying to impose your values on others.
It is clear to me that a lot of critics, both foreign and Thai, don't have much experience in this world and don't realize a lot of what's going on. Let me tell you, I've been doing private investigations since 1997, and my company has a private investigations division. We've "seen it all", it seems. Hundreds of cases, maybe over 1000 by now, learning vicariously. Many of our customers give us the most intimate details. Our agents go out on assignments to socialize undercover with Thai ladies as well as foreign husbands.
We don't try to "get" people. We research, analyze and assess situations. In most situations, the results are not all good. If an outright scam for money is happening, then it's pretty simple. However, usually it's not that simple and we try to counsel our customers. For guys, we try to tell him the lady's viewpoint. In long distance relationships, foreign guys are often as unreliable as Thai ex-bargirls. Few ladies are "perfect". Or men. We encourage dialogue, working things out, and clear agreements when appropriate. Regarding cheating husbands, we ask the wife to understand the husband, not react by running to self-serving lawyers, just calm down for awhile and open up dialogue. I suggest things for her to discuss. We have helped wives and husbands save many marriages. Others, to understand and accept the situation.
The typical Thai lady agent is a university graduate and proper lady with prior work experience at other jobs, and with no experience with foreign men at first when she starts as an apprentice. (They prove far, FAR more reliable and quality workers than experienced ex-bargirls/freelancers.) It's a select population because they are interested in the job, but they adapt well to understanding in nonjudgemental ways. So, regarding emails we receive that are very negative, why do highly educated other people have such a difficult time with these issues? What is the difference between our agents and the hypercritical?
I could expand upon that, but I will leave it to others to ponder.
Suffice it to say that these lady agents ponder the situation and have no problem socializing undercover with most Thai ladies they encounter. If they can do it, then why can't others?
In Thai society, like any society, people of different classes are generally not close friends, just based on educational level, mannerisms, lifestyle, economic class, occupational field, and so on. However, they are mutually respectful and acknowledge others' places in society. Equality is an idealistic myth that some people give lip service to.
On the other hand, given some motivation or common interest, people of different classes in Thai society can mix remarkably well.
(Notably, in one of my first few social encounters in the USAID community, there were ex-prostitute girlfriends of government employees and contractors who were ostracized by a few of my colleagues. Not all, but a few. It seemed so hypocritical that some USAID professionals would prove so class-conscious. I have also experienced some of this in the purely private sector in Thailand, e.g., ex-prostitute girlfriends of managing directors, managers, or expat employees.)
I have been encouraged about how some ex-prostitute ladies have been able to adapt and mix socially, and improve their lives, but there are always natural class differences at least at the outset. These should not be misinterpreted as negative judgements, but just natural class differences. Intellectual class and economic class. I'm not talking moral class.
People who self-righteously put down others, or who express cultural arrogance, are themselves the questionable ones.
On this website, I do not encourage guys one way or another. I mainly try to help people understand what they are dealing with. I even have a section on Mating 101, to put human sexuality into perspective in one's greater life. I discuss the kinds of Thai ladies you are likely to meet in certain kinds of places in Thailand. I discuss the advantages and disadvantages of different kinds of Thai ladies. It's up to the man to decide for himself if he wants a Thai girlfriend, or casual relationships of mutual benefit, or whatever. Does he want a career wife or a subserviant lady? Assertive or peaceful? How important is education? (Usually not as important as personality and empathic compatibility.) And so on. Up to him.
When I first came to Thailand, it took me awhile to deal with some of my own hangups. Then I unabashedly went out to experience what other normal guys working in Thailand did. No regrets. However, I much preferred the suburbs, and more highly educated companionship with different kinds of personalities, different subsets and lifestyle choices. Nonetheless, everyone has their own lifestyle, and if you like socializing in pool halls and getting out and about in leisure and entertainment districts, then another match would suit you better.
I've also had people call me various names. Fine, if believing your delusion is what you need, that's your freedom. The reality is usually different, and it amazes me how much of a figment of peoples' imaginations I can be. It tells more about them than it does about myself. I write about my history in Thailand on my website. Nonetheless, if I wanted to be a whoremonger and encourage other guys to do the same, as it's a huge market, then I would have done just that, unabashedly, instead of what I have written. What you see is what you get.
Feedback is welcome, but if it's going to be useful, then please read the entire section. And look within yourself as well. There's no reason to have anger towards me.
Then perhaps it would be better for both yourself and me, and maybe some useful analysis will come out of it which we can contribute to this section.
Notably, I get quickly notified of copies of tracts by the CopyScape / CopySentry automatic search engine & notifier.
Short quotes are often OK and can be approved, if there is a clear reference and web link back to my website from the quoted material, and if you send me a short message. I try to help people with good intentions, and try to help the world. Not thieves. Links back to this website are helpful for sustainable progress, thank you!
Please have honor and class by following intellectual property and internet protocols. Be a good kind of person in life.
It's an Economic, Not a Moral Problem ... Usually
First of all, the most common kind of prostitution in Thailand is an economic, not a moral, issue. Most prostitutes come from the poor farming northeast ("Isaan") and speak a Thai-Lao or Thai-Khmer dialect. They have a 6 year government education from a country school (after that, it's not free). Their employment options are $100 per month jobs in factories doing 6 day weeks at long hours, or similar employment ... or far more money hanging around foreigners, getting exposure and learning real life things, and hanging around with their friends.
Most of them send a big chunk of their money back home to their family. Most don't take drugs or even smoke, and many don't drink alcohol.
It is cultural arrogant of people from wealthy countries to come here and preach about morality. Try having their background and their options.
In comparison, in rich countries there are many "matrimonial prostitutes", i.e., women who prefer to marry a rich man who will support them rather than work for their own money, pursue a career of their own, and find someone with a similar purpose in life, similar interests and similar values. Many people in rich countries never have enough money, and are very materialistic. That is more morally questionable.
However, in Thailand there is an increasing trend of young students entering prostitution in order to buy fashion items. There are also prostitutes who are addicted to gambling, alcohol and drugs. Plus there are scammers. Like the matrimonial prostitute, this is a moral matter of values and interests, not an economic necessity.
Forget Reform or Purpose
The vast majority of ladies who have been in the prostitution scene, and stayed there for more than a few weeks, cannot be reformed.
I've heard countless arguments from guys who have taken on a prostitute as a ladyfriend or wife and who defend them. In the vast majority of these cases, the relationship doesn't last much longer. Few have lasted. The guy is then reminded "I told you so!".
I don't want to dwell on the exceptions. The issue here is the 80%+ rule of relationship failure.
However, this does not mean that 80% are bad people. Not at all. It's just that they aren't going to be what the guy wants them to be. They have their own life, and they are free to choose which guy to marry. It is a fact that while going week to week you see mostly the same girls working in the bars, on the other hand if you leave the bar area for just 6 months and return, most girls have gone. Where did they go? Often, away with a new exclusive boyfriend / husband.
Even if no boyfriend (and many bargirls do not want another husband or boyfriend or any such dependency), I have known via friends and associates a lot of prostitutes and ex-prostitutes who I found to be responsible, good people who are sending money back home, don't do anything unethical, and are in completely understandable decision situations.
Most ladies in prostitution have at least one child and no husband -- a boyfriend or husband who just walked away and takes no financial or other responsibility. They are single parents. (I might question their choice of boyfriend/husband, but I've made foolish choices of girlfriend in my life, too, when I was a teenager.)
I have a huge amount of respect for prostitutes who save money and not only leave the profession permanently with no desire to return, but who also try to improve their life, e.g., by working to help their husband as homemaker or starting their own business such as selling clothes on the street or opening their own salon or whatever. There are many of these ex-prostitutes.
However, most prostitutes are lazy and just live day to day.
I'm convinced that the select population of career prostitutes are those who have certain personality tendencies.
Look at how they get introduced into the trade, who stays, vs. who doesn't follow thru or who quits soon thereafter. Many, many ladies have a trusted childhood friend who has a lot of money from prostitution, has become more sophisticated, and helps their family (usually). This childhood friend often introduces more ladies from the village to the trade. Some friends turn away immediately when they see how she's making her money, and some others may try it once and quit. Others will slowly try it but stay for awhile, hopefully finding a rich foreign boyfriend. However, some try it and dive right in enthusiastically!
Those who stay tend to be extroverted, sensational rather than intuitive, lazy and don't think much. For example, they often like to gamble. Gambling and prostitution are often associated with each other because they are both thrill activities. Not far away is usually drugs. These people will not occupy themselves with self-improvement activities, but will just take the next reactive, easy thrill.
The typical prostitute will never run a business of her own, or even do the home laundry or dishes. Anything that requires self-discipline and real work is not something they're going to do. They will sit around and watch TV all day until it's time to go to the go-go bar or pickup joint to get screwed -- "make money on their backs". Even if factories paid more, they would not go work there.
These ladies have no purpose in life, and if they're not getting screwed then they will be vegetating in front of the TV or hanging around playing cards and gambling. So they may as well provide the occasional relief that some busy guys need.
From the Thai perspective, their main purpose in life is to serve working men by providing sexual entertainment, to bring skilled foreign men and tourist money into Thailand, and to bring their money into the countryside.
The differences in education and experiences between the man and the lady is often vast.
People's personalities don't change. Maybe the children of prostitutes will become more productive members of society (especially if they're raised in a different environment), but the prostitutes themselves will not, in the vast majority of cases.
The difference between a typical prostitute and a typical mainstream lady are like night and day. (However, you have exceptions in both categories.)
A lot of foreigners consider paying 1000 baht for sex to be cheap, and they don't care what the lady does with it. I look at it this way: The typical university graduate starts at a salary of around 10,000 baht per month, or 500 baht per DAY. Why should guys be paying ladies that kind of money to lay on their backs and spread their legs? Look at how a lot of those ladies blow money -- taking taxis instead of buses, partying with friends, and so on. If they were sending the money home, that's different. The choosy ones don't get a customer every day, so they get a higher "consultant's pay scale". When I do people watching, and talk with ladies, these are the kinds of things that go thru my mind, and perhaps my own moral judgements / opinions.
In any case, it's a free world out there, and as long as they aren't bothering anyone else, and all this is consensual private business, then live and let live. Wildlife. Animal Planet: Showcase Sukhumvit. It's their background, subculture/personality, and realistic profession options. At least they're contributing some service to the GNP as entertainers (and exporting for foreign cash influx) instead of sitting at home watching TV and mooching off of siblings.
Postscript
I get a lot of positive feedback from this section, from both veterans as well as men who are new to Thailand. Based on feedback by email and the web form, the positive and neutral must outweigh the negative by somewhere around 50:1.
However, I also get criticisms, some of the messages very negative, judgemental, and even hateful. I use criticisms to improve my own viewpoints as well as to improve my website, but sometimes I think the improvement needs to come from the other side, and I feel sorry for stubborn people stuck in a cycle of negative emotions and bad attitude, who just don't see the light.
Some men say I put down bargirls too much, relative to mainstream Thai ladies. Maybe I do, but I respect bargirls and freelancers who are not scammers, and understand their options in life.
Some Thai women say I put down Thai women, with some saying that I imply all Thai women are bad like bargirls. (They didn't read much, did they?)
Some foreign women say I denigrate women.
My American girlfriend (when I first arrived) commented about the sweet attitudes and small bodies of Thai ladies, and then exclaimed "I hate Thai ladies!"
Some foreign men and foreign women try to put me down for even discussing prostitutes or Thai ladies in the way I do. I guess it is THEY who have a need to put down others, and show off how good and high status they are, by trying to put ME down.
Besides attitude problems, it is obvious that many of the people who send criticisms have not really read what I have written, or else read it with such a bad attitude and filters/blinders that they did not really comprehend what is written.
For example, I don't put down Thai women. Quite the contrary. I point out that prostitutes make up about 2% of the Thai female population, but just concentrate themselves where the business is, which includes a few square kilometers in the tourist and expat concentration areas in lower Sukhumvit and in Pattaya, out of all of Thailand, and make clear that mainstream Thai ladies are generally the opposite -- very conservative, trustworthy, and not promiscuous. However, I don't think I put down Thai prostitutes in general, either. Sure, I put down scammers. However, I don't put down prostitutes in general. There may be a mismatch between foreign guys' expectations and what the lady can or will provide naturally. But who is to judge who is at fault in a relationship that does not work out? Many prostitutes are good people. Just different situations and values.
Sometimes, I feel that people are venting their anger on me, when the source of their anger comes from another experience in their past. Like the employee who goes home after a bad day at work and kicks the dog. "Displaced aggression."
Some people want others to agree with their own political opinions, and tend to be a bit opinionated.
Run a website of substance, and you are sure to attract some heat (and envy, sometimes even obsession, but that's another topic...).
Let me just discuss a few things here:
First, anytime you discuss male-female relationships and sex, you will breed controversy. Many people have emotional reactions to these topics, for various reasons. It's largely instinct.
Many of the negative judgements I receive tend to be self-righteous or based on cultural arrogance.
The majority of the negative feedback comes from females (but most female feedback is not negative, just understanding -- I don't want anyone to infer that most females give negative feedback, because that's not the case!). I suspect that many of those people have frustrations with their own relationships with members of the opposite gender, or other sociopolitical agendas.
Secondly, any website guide which aims to discuss Thailand in a balanced way, and which tries to help people coming to Thailand to work and live, must cover the relationships between Thai ladies and foreign men, especially the most common kinds of Thai ladies who you find with a large sample of foreign men working and living in Thailand -- former prostitutes (or current prostitutes). If I avoided this subject, or told people what they wanted to hear, then I wouldn't be discussing Reality.
I'm not promoting prostitution, or Thai ladies, and I get no benefits from them. I have a guide to Thailand, and people are reading my website because they are already interested in Thailand. The Thai girlfriends section is just one section out of many about Thailand.
Third, this is the human experience, and consenting adults are free to do whatever they wish, as long as it doesn't impose on anyone else. If you feel that you are being imposed on, well, it's a big world and it is easy enough for you to go elsewhere to avoid this.
You can't change the world to be what you want it to be. It is better to accept the things you cannot change, and be tolerant and understanding. This is one of the good things about Thai people which makes this country so nice -- Thai people are tolerant. It is impolite to criticize and talk badly about people who are doing no harm to others. In the Land of Smiles, Thai people are understanding, compassionate, and not prone to arguments, relatively speaking.
I am a relatively nonjudgemental person. I try to understand the human experience and the great variety of people in this world, which includes what goes on in the expat concentration areas of Thailand. I try to help people. I have a background as an analyst. Also, I have a lot of compassion for people, and I try to understand a wide variety of people very different from myself. Often, what's right for me is not best for them, and vice versa, though I do try to understand others, and often in my work and social life I learn a lot vicariously. I like to learn and understand. I'm not going to tell other people how they should run their lives. That goes for both foreigners and Thais.
Yes, there are a lot of prostitutes. Most of them come from very poor backgrounds, mainly from "Isaan", the poor northeast. Try living there. Try making it in this world with a farm background and the standard 6 year government education, at a country school. Try having the option of working on the farm or else for $100/month in a factory doing monotonous things for long hours 6 days a week. If you don't want the free market of prostitution to exist, then what are you doing to create an alternative solution? I have volunteered for charities, and I worked for the US Agency for International Development (which is what originally pointed me to Bangkok, Thailand, the Asia regional office) at lower pay rates than I was offered to work for the purely private sector. I have "paid my dues". Have you walked the walk, or only talked the talk?
I've also had my experiences with western high society "matrimonial prostitutes" and ladies "dating rich guys", i.e., women who are attracted only to rich and successful men, both directly (though I never married one) and vicariously via many friends and associates. What's the difference between that and having an ex-bargirl Thai girlfriend?
I'm not saying either one is bad. Different people have different options, and it's all consensual between adults.
If some guys want to come to Thailand and have Thai lady, or many of them, that's their choice, and the ladies' choices. Most of the guys and most of the ladies are not so stupid and naive as to not know the basic risks, consequences, and benefits of these encounters, though they may not fully understand what's involved or each others' cultures and behavioral norms. I try to help the guys understand. (Also, I help the ladies understand when I talk with them, but they don't read English language websites, so I'd waste my time writing for them.)
Contrary to some complaints, I don't think I encourage guys to do one thing or another. There are different ways to analyze one's situation and options, and what a guy or Thai lady chooses to do depends mostly on their own values -- what is important to them. Not your values. I'm not going to impose my values on them, and I think many of them would not think highly of arrogant, inexperienced and self-limiting critics.
Sure, I have my own opinions and preferences. A lot of that comes out in this website. You are free to have yours, too. But think twice before trying to impose your values on others.
It is clear to me that a lot of critics, both foreign and Thai, don't have much experience in this world and don't realize a lot of what's going on. Let me tell you, I've been doing private investigations since 1997, and my company has a private investigations division. We've "seen it all", it seems. Hundreds of cases, maybe over 1000 by now, learning vicariously. Many of our customers give us the most intimate details. Our agents go out on assignments to socialize undercover with Thai ladies as well as foreign husbands.
We don't try to "get" people. We research, analyze and assess situations. In most situations, the results are not all good. If an outright scam for money is happening, then it's pretty simple. However, usually it's not that simple and we try to counsel our customers. For guys, we try to tell him the lady's viewpoint. In long distance relationships, foreign guys are often as unreliable as Thai ex-bargirls. Few ladies are "perfect". Or men. We encourage dialogue, working things out, and clear agreements when appropriate. Regarding cheating husbands, we ask the wife to understand the husband, not react by running to self-serving lawyers, just calm down for awhile and open up dialogue. I suggest things for her to discuss. We have helped wives and husbands save many marriages. Others, to understand and accept the situation.
The typical Thai lady agent is a university graduate and proper lady with prior work experience at other jobs, and with no experience with foreign men at first when she starts as an apprentice. (They prove far, FAR more reliable and quality workers than experienced ex-bargirls/freelancers.) It's a select population because they are interested in the job, but they adapt well to understanding in nonjudgemental ways. So, regarding emails we receive that are very negative, why do highly educated other people have such a difficult time with these issues? What is the difference between our agents and the hypercritical?
I could expand upon that, but I will leave it to others to ponder.
Suffice it to say that these lady agents ponder the situation and have no problem socializing undercover with most Thai ladies they encounter. If they can do it, then why can't others?
In Thai society, like any society, people of different classes are generally not close friends, just based on educational level, mannerisms, lifestyle, economic class, occupational field, and so on. However, they are mutually respectful and acknowledge others' places in society. Equality is an idealistic myth that some people give lip service to.
On the other hand, given some motivation or common interest, people of different classes in Thai society can mix remarkably well.
(Notably, in one of my first few social encounters in the USAID community, there were ex-prostitute girlfriends of government employees and contractors who were ostracized by a few of my colleagues. Not all, but a few. It seemed so hypocritical that some USAID professionals would prove so class-conscious. I have also experienced some of this in the purely private sector in Thailand, e.g., ex-prostitute girlfriends of managing directors, managers, or expat employees.)
I have been encouraged about how some ex-prostitute ladies have been able to adapt and mix socially, and improve their lives, but there are always natural class differences at least at the outset. These should not be misinterpreted as negative judgements, but just natural class differences. Intellectual class and economic class. I'm not talking moral class.
People who self-righteously put down others, or who express cultural arrogance, are themselves the questionable ones.
On this website, I do not encourage guys one way or another. I mainly try to help people understand what they are dealing with. I even have a section on Mating 101, to put human sexuality into perspective in one's greater life. I discuss the kinds of Thai ladies you are likely to meet in certain kinds of places in Thailand. I discuss the advantages and disadvantages of different kinds of Thai ladies. It's up to the man to decide for himself if he wants a Thai girlfriend, or casual relationships of mutual benefit, or whatever. Does he want a career wife or a subserviant lady? Assertive or peaceful? How important is education? (Usually not as important as personality and empathic compatibility.) And so on. Up to him.
When I first came to Thailand, it took me awhile to deal with some of my own hangups. Then I unabashedly went out to experience what other normal guys working in Thailand did. No regrets. However, I much preferred the suburbs, and more highly educated companionship with different kinds of personalities, different subsets and lifestyle choices. Nonetheless, everyone has their own lifestyle, and if you like socializing in pool halls and getting out and about in leisure and entertainment districts, then another match would suit you better.
I've also had people call me various names. Fine, if believing your delusion is what you need, that's your freedom. The reality is usually different, and it amazes me how much of a figment of peoples' imaginations I can be. It tells more about them than it does about myself. I write about my history in Thailand on my website. Nonetheless, if I wanted to be a whoremonger and encourage other guys to do the same, as it's a huge market, then I would have done just that, unabashedly, instead of what I have written. What you see is what you get.
Feedback is welcome, but if it's going to be useful, then please read the entire section. And look within yourself as well. There's no reason to have anger towards me.
Then perhaps it would be better for both yourself and me, and maybe some useful analysis will come out of it which we can contribute to this section.
A guide to the perfect Thai idiot
A guide to the perfect Thai idiot
Source: BangkokPost May 26 2010
In 1996, three Latin Americans wrote a best-selling book in Spanish which was later translated into English as Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot. Their main contention is that Latin American problems are not caused by outside influences as Latin Americans generally believe. Rather, they result mainly from actions of Latin Americans themselves.
Correcting Latin American problems, therefore, must come from Latin Americans.
Ask Thais about the causes of last week's shameful event - or of any problems in Thailand for that matter - and they will readily point the finger somewhere else, never at themselves.
I am a Thai so I am part of this well-practised response. But I now believe that if we continue with this long-running charade of self-deception, Thailand is on its way to becoming a failed state shortly.
We present Thailand as the Land of Smiles full of gentle Buddhists. We regularly give alms to monks and often make donations to temples, believing that those are selfless acts for the welfare of others.
Deep down, however, we do that only because we wish to get something in return - to go to heaven or have a richer next life. It is a trade, pure and simple, nothing kind or selfless about it.
Few of us give for the sake of giving. We are basically very selfish.
Every time we go to the temple or attend a Buddhist ceremony, we duly accept and recite the Five Precepts as a guide to our daily lives, but we leave them there, as we always make promises without ever intending to keep them.
Actually, we understand little about Buddhism.
Even among the ranks of the monks, most do not know the teachings in-depth and lead their lives accordingly - all they know is how to conduct ceremonies from which they earn easy income.
This reflects something deeper - we are generally lazy and like to take short-cuts to the sabai (do-nothing) state. Lottery tickets, therefore, always sell out at premium prices; prostitution is rampant and young women readily marry foreign pensioners.
We love to talk but rarely listen. Even when we do, we often fail to hear, as we never learn to think critically.
We cannot put up with different points of view nor can we work cooperatively.
Many of the over 30,000 Buddhist temples were built next to one another because when we disagreed with one, we just built another.
That the cooperative movement has never been successful here is another indication of our inability to tolerate different points of view.
We readily forgive, so we believe, as our most common utterance is mai pen rai (it doesn't matter) when someone makes a mistake. But that is only a reflection of the culture of indifference and ready rationalisation.
We can always cite a well-known proverb, a famous poem or a sage's sharp utterance to justify everything we do.
We complain so much about corruption. But we do little about it.
Worse, we keep electing the same corrupt politicians because they have money and influence from which we hope to benefit.
Survey after survey shows that the majority of us do not mind corruption as long as we get something out of it.
One of the surveys last year showed that almost 85% of us believed that cheating was a normal business practice, making us practically a nation of thieves.
When I raised the matter in this column, I received the angriest responses from fellow Thais, using expressions so colourful that they should not be printed nor uttered within earshot of other humans.
This long-running self-deception has created so much moral deficit, to employ Joseph Stiglitz's terminology, that has put Thailand into a state of moral crisis for some time now. Some of the symptoms of this state are the economic crisis of 1997 and the protests culminating in last week's events.
Of course, we will never admit this, for we are perfect and will continue to be very angry when a foreigner utters something non-complementary about us.
But I do hope that the events of last week shock most of us into re-examining ourselves, our values, and start reducing the moral deficit as well as trying to generate some moral surplus: doing more genuinely voluntary work for the common good similar to the street cleaning carried out by Bangkokians last weekend, but on a regular basis.
Source: BangkokPost May 26 2010
In 1996, three Latin Americans wrote a best-selling book in Spanish which was later translated into English as Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot. Their main contention is that Latin American problems are not caused by outside influences as Latin Americans generally believe. Rather, they result mainly from actions of Latin Americans themselves.
Correcting Latin American problems, therefore, must come from Latin Americans.
Ask Thais about the causes of last week's shameful event - or of any problems in Thailand for that matter - and they will readily point the finger somewhere else, never at themselves.
I am a Thai so I am part of this well-practised response. But I now believe that if we continue with this long-running charade of self-deception, Thailand is on its way to becoming a failed state shortly.
We present Thailand as the Land of Smiles full of gentle Buddhists. We regularly give alms to monks and often make donations to temples, believing that those are selfless acts for the welfare of others.
Deep down, however, we do that only because we wish to get something in return - to go to heaven or have a richer next life. It is a trade, pure and simple, nothing kind or selfless about it.
Few of us give for the sake of giving. We are basically very selfish.
Every time we go to the temple or attend a Buddhist ceremony, we duly accept and recite the Five Precepts as a guide to our daily lives, but we leave them there, as we always make promises without ever intending to keep them.
Actually, we understand little about Buddhism.
Even among the ranks of the monks, most do not know the teachings in-depth and lead their lives accordingly - all they know is how to conduct ceremonies from which they earn easy income.
This reflects something deeper - we are generally lazy and like to take short-cuts to the sabai (do-nothing) state. Lottery tickets, therefore, always sell out at premium prices; prostitution is rampant and young women readily marry foreign pensioners.
We love to talk but rarely listen. Even when we do, we often fail to hear, as we never learn to think critically.
We cannot put up with different points of view nor can we work cooperatively.
Many of the over 30,000 Buddhist temples were built next to one another because when we disagreed with one, we just built another.
That the cooperative movement has never been successful here is another indication of our inability to tolerate different points of view.
We readily forgive, so we believe, as our most common utterance is mai pen rai (it doesn't matter) when someone makes a mistake. But that is only a reflection of the culture of indifference and ready rationalisation.
We can always cite a well-known proverb, a famous poem or a sage's sharp utterance to justify everything we do.
We complain so much about corruption. But we do little about it.
Worse, we keep electing the same corrupt politicians because they have money and influence from which we hope to benefit.
Survey after survey shows that the majority of us do not mind corruption as long as we get something out of it.
One of the surveys last year showed that almost 85% of us believed that cheating was a normal business practice, making us practically a nation of thieves.
When I raised the matter in this column, I received the angriest responses from fellow Thais, using expressions so colourful that they should not be printed nor uttered within earshot of other humans.
This long-running self-deception has created so much moral deficit, to employ Joseph Stiglitz's terminology, that has put Thailand into a state of moral crisis for some time now. Some of the symptoms of this state are the economic crisis of 1997 and the protests culminating in last week's events.
Of course, we will never admit this, for we are perfect and will continue to be very angry when a foreigner utters something non-complementary about us.
But I do hope that the events of last week shock most of us into re-examining ourselves, our values, and start reducing the moral deficit as well as trying to generate some moral surplus: doing more genuinely voluntary work for the common good similar to the street cleaning carried out by Bangkokians last weekend, but on a regular basis.
If a country is to have such "weak" morals, would it not also be safe to say "weak" ethics?
a branch of philosophy that addresses questions about morality—that is, concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, virtue and vice, justice, etc
Therefor the next stage would be to ask, where do morals come from?
now many say religion, but as we can see that arguement can not possible stand here.
Socrates (469 BC – 399 BC) was one of the first Greek philosophers to encourage both scholars and the common citizen to turn their attention from the outside world to the condition of humankind. In this view, knowledge having a bearing on human life was placed highest, all other knowledge being secondary.
Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) posited an ethical system that may be termed "self-realizationism." In Aristotle's view, when a person acts in accordance with his nature and realizes his full potential, he will do good and be content.
Hedonism posits that the principle ethic is maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain. There are several schools of Hedonist thought ranging from those advocating the indulgence of even momentary desires to those teaching a pursuit of spiritual bliss. In their consideration of consequences, they range from those advocating self-gratification regardless of the pain and expense to others, to those stating that the most ethical pursuit maximizes pleasure and happiness for the most people.
Cyrenaic hedonism Founded by Aristippus of Cyrene, Cyrenaics supported immediate gratification or pleasure. "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die." Even fleeting desires should be indulged, for fear the opportunity should be forever lost. There was little to no concern with the future, the present dominating in the pursuit for immediate pleasure. Cyrenaic hedonism encouraged the pursuit of enjoyment and indulgence without hesitation, believing pleasure to be the only good
The Stoic philosopher Epictetus posited that the greatest good was contentment and serenity. Peace of mind, or Apatheia, was of the highest value; self-mastery over one's desires and emotions leads to spiritual peace.
Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right action is one that produces a good outcome, or consequence. This view is often expressed as the aphorism "The ends justify the means".
What sort of consequences count as good consequences?
Who is the primary beneficiary of moral action?
How are the consequences judged and who judges them?
One way to divide various consequentialisms is by the types of consequences that are taken to matter most, that is, which consequences count as good states of affairs. According to hedonistic utilitarianism, a good action is one that results in an increase in pleasure, and the best action is one that results in the most pleasure for the greatest number. Closely related is eudaimonic consequentialism, according to which a full, flourishing life, which may or may not be the same as enjoying a great deal of pleasure, is the ultimate aim. Similarly, one might adopt an aesthetic consequentialism, in which the ultimate aim is to produce beauty. However, one might fix on non-psychological goods as the relevant effect. Thus, one might pursue an increase in material equality or political liberty instead of something like the more ephemeral "pleasure". Other theories adopt a package of several goods, all to be promoted equally. Whether a particular consequentialist theory focuses on a single good or many, conflicts and tensions between different good states of affairs are to be expected and must be adjudicated.
Immanuel Kant's theory of ethics is considered deontological for several different reasons. First, Kant argues that to act in the morally right way, people must act from duty (deon). Second, Kant argued that it was not the consequences of actions that make them right or wrong but the motives of the person who carries out the action.
THIS I CAN NOT AGREE WITH, BECAUSE WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG?
Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
maybe this can answer some of it.
Cutting directly to the point, morals and ethics are part of society and culture. But when it comes to sex, we are talking instincts and human nature to seek it out. When you try to mix the two together, you end up with a mess by trying to punish someone for being human.
Morals and ethics vs Thailand’s naughty nightlife
Posted on February 7th, 2010 by Richard
April 20th, 2011 by The Lost Boy
The big story coming out of Thailand over Songkran (Thai New Year) was the three teenage girls who stripped off and danced topless during a street party in the Silom nightlife zone. Photos and videos of the three girls surfaced and the Interwebs immediately came alight with shows of support for the girls and complimentary, witty comments being made about their breasts, and breasts in general. Then it was revealed that the girls are 13, 14 and 16.
Chalidaporn Songsamphan, an associate professor at Thammasat University in Bangkok, said Thais were uncomfortable when sexuality was displayed in public. And, she said, the anger directed at the topless dancers was a way for people to channel their frustrations about wider social problems, like alcoholism, low test scores among students and teenage delinquency. (NYT)
The fury only came after Culture Minister Niphit Intharasombat lambasted the three teenage girls for offending the country's culture.
What about the culture of heavy drinking? What about the rowdy crowd and the culture which treats women as sex objects? What about the commercial culture that pushes for girls' early sexuality or makes women think that flashing the flesh is a sign of self confidence?
Our culture maintains the good girl/bad girl divide to endorse men's sexual promiscuity, which allows the business of sexual exploitation to prosper.
The culture of blaming it all on bad girls allows the real culprits to get away with murder.
Not allowed to have hair of an "unacceptable" length (whatever that is?!)
Not allowed to have "seemingly" unclean clothes (many poor students have stained shirts. They are vilified for this. On many occasions, they end up leaving the education system).
Are allowed to gouge huge lumps of snot from their noses whenever & wherever they please.
Are not allowed to pick food from their teeth unless the mouth is covered.
Are allowed to hack, cough & sneeze all over anybody.
Are allowed to blow snot from their noses whenever & wherever they wish (block one nostril & blow out to clear the free nostril).
Are allowed to spit wherever & whenever they please.
Are not dissuaded from littering.
Therefor the next stage would be to ask, where do morals come from?
now many say religion, but as we can see that arguement can not possible stand here.
Socrates (469 BC – 399 BC) was one of the first Greek philosophers to encourage both scholars and the common citizen to turn their attention from the outside world to the condition of humankind. In this view, knowledge having a bearing on human life was placed highest, all other knowledge being secondary.
Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) posited an ethical system that may be termed "self-realizationism." In Aristotle's view, when a person acts in accordance with his nature and realizes his full potential, he will do good and be content.
Hedonism posits that the principle ethic is maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain. There are several schools of Hedonist thought ranging from those advocating the indulgence of even momentary desires to those teaching a pursuit of spiritual bliss. In their consideration of consequences, they range from those advocating self-gratification regardless of the pain and expense to others, to those stating that the most ethical pursuit maximizes pleasure and happiness for the most people.
Cyrenaic hedonism Founded by Aristippus of Cyrene, Cyrenaics supported immediate gratification or pleasure. "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die." Even fleeting desires should be indulged, for fear the opportunity should be forever lost. There was little to no concern with the future, the present dominating in the pursuit for immediate pleasure. Cyrenaic hedonism encouraged the pursuit of enjoyment and indulgence without hesitation, believing pleasure to be the only good
The Stoic philosopher Epictetus posited that the greatest good was contentment and serenity. Peace of mind, or Apatheia, was of the highest value; self-mastery over one's desires and emotions leads to spiritual peace.
Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right action is one that produces a good outcome, or consequence. This view is often expressed as the aphorism "The ends justify the means".
What sort of consequences count as good consequences?
Who is the primary beneficiary of moral action?
How are the consequences judged and who judges them?
One way to divide various consequentialisms is by the types of consequences that are taken to matter most, that is, which consequences count as good states of affairs. According to hedonistic utilitarianism, a good action is one that results in an increase in pleasure, and the best action is one that results in the most pleasure for the greatest number. Closely related is eudaimonic consequentialism, according to which a full, flourishing life, which may or may not be the same as enjoying a great deal of pleasure, is the ultimate aim. Similarly, one might adopt an aesthetic consequentialism, in which the ultimate aim is to produce beauty. However, one might fix on non-psychological goods as the relevant effect. Thus, one might pursue an increase in material equality or political liberty instead of something like the more ephemeral "pleasure". Other theories adopt a package of several goods, all to be promoted equally. Whether a particular consequentialist theory focuses on a single good or many, conflicts and tensions between different good states of affairs are to be expected and must be adjudicated.
Immanuel Kant's theory of ethics is considered deontological for several different reasons. First, Kant argues that to act in the morally right way, people must act from duty (deon). Second, Kant argued that it was not the consequences of actions that make them right or wrong but the motives of the person who carries out the action.
THIS I CAN NOT AGREE WITH, BECAUSE WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG?
Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
maybe this can answer some of it.
Cutting directly to the point, morals and ethics are part of society and culture. But when it comes to sex, we are talking instincts and human nature to seek it out. When you try to mix the two together, you end up with a mess by trying to punish someone for being human.
Morals and ethics vs Thailand’s naughty nightlife
Posted on February 7th, 2010 by Richard
April 20th, 2011 by The Lost Boy
The big story coming out of Thailand over Songkran (Thai New Year) was the three teenage girls who stripped off and danced topless during a street party in the Silom nightlife zone. Photos and videos of the three girls surfaced and the Interwebs immediately came alight with shows of support for the girls and complimentary, witty comments being made about their breasts, and breasts in general. Then it was revealed that the girls are 13, 14 and 16.
Chalidaporn Songsamphan, an associate professor at Thammasat University in Bangkok, said Thais were uncomfortable when sexuality was displayed in public. And, she said, the anger directed at the topless dancers was a way for people to channel their frustrations about wider social problems, like alcoholism, low test scores among students and teenage delinquency. (NYT)
The fury only came after Culture Minister Niphit Intharasombat lambasted the three teenage girls for offending the country's culture.
What about the culture of heavy drinking? What about the rowdy crowd and the culture which treats women as sex objects? What about the commercial culture that pushes for girls' early sexuality or makes women think that flashing the flesh is a sign of self confidence?
Our culture maintains the good girl/bad girl divide to endorse men's sexual promiscuity, which allows the business of sexual exploitation to prosper.
The culture of blaming it all on bad girls allows the real culprits to get away with murder.
Not allowed to have hair of an "unacceptable" length (whatever that is?!)
Not allowed to have "seemingly" unclean clothes (many poor students have stained shirts. They are vilified for this. On many occasions, they end up leaving the education system).
Are allowed to gouge huge lumps of snot from their noses whenever & wherever they please.
Are not allowed to pick food from their teeth unless the mouth is covered.
Are allowed to hack, cough & sneeze all over anybody.
Are allowed to blow snot from their noses whenever & wherever they wish (block one nostril & blow out to clear the free nostril).
Are allowed to spit wherever & whenever they please.
Are not dissuaded from littering.
Friday, July 22, 2011
Are there any morals in this country???
A person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.
Is a sense of behavioral conduct that differentiates intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong).
The major virtues they identified include wisdom / knowledge; courage; humanity; justice; temperance; and transcendence. Each of these includes several divisions. For instance humanity includes love, kindness, and social intelligence.
Humans consequently evolved "pro-social" emotions, such as feelings of empathy or guilt, in response to these moral behaviors.
Published : July 20, 2011 :: 18:07:37 Bellboy Arrested For Putting “Sex Pill” into Co-Worker’s Iced-Tea
Published : July 21, 2011 :: 19:07:45 Two Teen Lady Boy Pick Pocket Russian Tourist
Published : August 03, 2010 :: 13:08:33 Thai Man Arrested for Raping his own Daughter in Pattaya
Published : June 18, 2011 :: 07:06:35 Pattaya Grade 8 Student Rapes Grade 6 Student in School Toilet
Published : October 18, 2010 :: 12:10:44 Pregnant Woman Fights off Rape by Man Impersonating Police
Published : June 26, 2011 :: 07:06:58 79 Year Old Retired Teacher Swindled by a Trickser
Published : October 17, 2010 :: 15:10:17 Thai Man Arrested over Rape of Friends Two Teenage Daughters
Published : April 07, 2010 :: 16:04:31 Habitual Offender Caught In Pattaya For Raping a Minor
Published : February 16, 2010 :: 10:02:49 Norwegian National Robbed & Assaulted on Pattaya Beach
Published : June 18, 2011 :: 07:06:23 BKK Lady Boy Swindling Japanese Arrested
Published : September 12, 2010 :: 14:09:55 Violent Pattaya Stabbing Attack Fuelled by Illegal Thai Whiskey
22nd July 2011 Confused elderly Woman thrown off Bus and left in Central Pattaya
22nd July 2011 Banglamung Convenience store owner arrested on drug dealing charges
Published : August 24, 2010 :: 18:08:19 7 Young Men Arrested over Calculated Rape of 2 Minors
Published : April 03, 2010 :: 17:04:40 Drug-Crazed Brother Makes Man’s Life A Misery Near Pattaya
Published : October 01, 2010 :: 12:10:33 Elderly Woman Caught-up in Banglamung Police Crackdown
Published : January 08, 2010 :: 14:01:10 [ 2,310 views ]
Drug crazed man stabs brother to death
Published : October 20, 2010 :: 13:10:37 [ 12,508 views ]
Russian Real Estate Investor Brutally Murdered in Pattaya
Published : June 01, 2011 :: 15:06:29 [ 3,090 views ]
Man Stabbed To Death Possibly By Wife’s Lover, Police say
Published : March 26, 2010 :: 14:03:57 [ 1,441 views ]
No Breakthrough In Pattaya Dismembered Baby Case
Published : June 25, 2010 :: 12:06:27 [ 6,336 views ]
Jealous Man Commits Murder-Suicide Near Pattaya
Published : April 15, 2011 :: 14:04:28 [ 4,929 views ]
Raging Wife Hires Hitmen to Shoot Her Husband
Published : April 07, 2011 :: 09:04:26 [ 2,808 views ]
Injured Teenagers Survive The Shooting
Published : January 06, 2010 :: 13:01:09 [ 2,183 views ]
Pattaya Taxi Driver Threatens the Public with Revolver
Published : September 09, 2010 :: 12:09:53 [ 4,435 views ]
Brutal Meat Cleaver Attackers Caught After 8 Month Search
Published : June 18, 2010 :: 15:06:24 [ 12,830 views ]
Brit Robbed by Thieving Gang of Katoey’s in Pattaya
Published : February 09, 2010 :: 13:02:02 [ 14,686 views ]
British National Drugged and Robbed by Pattaya Prostitute
Published : July 27, 2010 :: 13:07:57 [ 6,663 views ]
Spiked Drinks Result in Robbery of Jordanians at Pattaya Hotel
Girl, 5, and politician killed as gunmen open fire at temple
19/07/2011
Published : March 26, 2010 :: 15:03:18 [ 13,073 views ]
Pattaya Sex Worker Drugs & Rips Clients Blind
Published : July 09, 2010 :: 17:07:45 [ 8,150 views ]
Indians Fall Victim to Pattaya Bargirl Drugging Theft
Gunmen attack temple crowd, kill 2
18/07/2011
Islamic school teacher killed
10/07/2011
City cabbie nabbed for robbing, attempting to rape passenger
02/07/2011 :
Suspects arrested for killing three tigers
30/06/2011
Another BJT canvasser murdered Bhumjaithai Party
27/06/2011 :
Wildlife smuggling trails go ever deeper
27/06/2011 :
Suban murder suspect arrested
26/06/2011 : Police have rounded up one of the suspects allegedly involved in the murder of key Bhumjaithai Party canvasser Suban Jirapunvanit on June 16.
Bombs, gunmen kill and maim in South
24/06/2011 : Two men working on an irrigation project were killed and five others injured in a bomb explosion at their dormitory in Narathiwat on Friday.
e rise of the order of assassins
20/06/2011 : A dissertation on "hitman agencies" has pointed out to the need to set up a special police unit to deal directly and more effectively with the growing number of professional killers.
PAO chief killed in daring attack
16/06/2011 : The president of the Lop Buri provincial administration organisation was killed and two others, his wife and secretary, wounded in a broad daylight attack by a gunman in Phra Nakhon district on Thursday afternoon.
Slain girl's parents live in fear
04/06/2011 : CHIANG RAI : Parents of a slain hilltribe girl have sought protection from police after the man charged with her murder _ the mayor of their tambon _ was freed on bail and a key witness in the case died mysteriously.
DSI urged to prioritise human trafficking
02/06/2011 : The Department of Special Investigations should make human trafficking cases a priority, says Eaklak Loomchomkha, chief of the anti-human trafficking non-governmental organisation Mirror Foundation.
Man gets life for bus stop murder
31/05/2011 : The Criminal Court on Tuesday sentenced a man to life in prison for murder, robbery and attempted rape of a woman hotel receptionist in 2009.
Democrat canvasser's house attacked
26/05/2011 : The house of a political canvasser for the Democrat Party in Bung Kum district was attacked by an unknown number of gunmen early on Thursday morning, police said.
Loan sharks defy crackdown
23/05/2011 : Loan sharks preying on low-income parents who borrowed from them to pay back-to-school expenses for their children are posing a headache for police.
Killers boasted of rape (Brit tourist gangraped and murdered in Thailand)
Sydney Morning Herald Jan. 11, 2005
Is a sense of behavioral conduct that differentiates intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong).
The major virtues they identified include wisdom / knowledge; courage; humanity; justice; temperance; and transcendence. Each of these includes several divisions. For instance humanity includes love, kindness, and social intelligence.
Humans consequently evolved "pro-social" emotions, such as feelings of empathy or guilt, in response to these moral behaviors.
Published : July 20, 2011 :: 18:07:37 Bellboy Arrested For Putting “Sex Pill” into Co-Worker’s Iced-Tea
Published : July 21, 2011 :: 19:07:45 Two Teen Lady Boy Pick Pocket Russian Tourist
Published : August 03, 2010 :: 13:08:33 Thai Man Arrested for Raping his own Daughter in Pattaya
Published : June 18, 2011 :: 07:06:35 Pattaya Grade 8 Student Rapes Grade 6 Student in School Toilet
Published : October 18, 2010 :: 12:10:44 Pregnant Woman Fights off Rape by Man Impersonating Police
Published : June 26, 2011 :: 07:06:58 79 Year Old Retired Teacher Swindled by a Trickser
Published : October 17, 2010 :: 15:10:17 Thai Man Arrested over Rape of Friends Two Teenage Daughters
Published : April 07, 2010 :: 16:04:31 Habitual Offender Caught In Pattaya For Raping a Minor
Published : February 16, 2010 :: 10:02:49 Norwegian National Robbed & Assaulted on Pattaya Beach
Published : June 18, 2011 :: 07:06:23 BKK Lady Boy Swindling Japanese Arrested
Published : September 12, 2010 :: 14:09:55 Violent Pattaya Stabbing Attack Fuelled by Illegal Thai Whiskey
22nd July 2011 Confused elderly Woman thrown off Bus and left in Central Pattaya
22nd July 2011 Banglamung Convenience store owner arrested on drug dealing charges
Published : August 24, 2010 :: 18:08:19 7 Young Men Arrested over Calculated Rape of 2 Minors
Published : April 03, 2010 :: 17:04:40 Drug-Crazed Brother Makes Man’s Life A Misery Near Pattaya
Published : October 01, 2010 :: 12:10:33 Elderly Woman Caught-up in Banglamung Police Crackdown
Published : January 08, 2010 :: 14:01:10 [ 2,310 views ]
Drug crazed man stabs brother to death
Published : October 20, 2010 :: 13:10:37 [ 12,508 views ]
Russian Real Estate Investor Brutally Murdered in Pattaya
Published : June 01, 2011 :: 15:06:29 [ 3,090 views ]
Man Stabbed To Death Possibly By Wife’s Lover, Police say
Published : March 26, 2010 :: 14:03:57 [ 1,441 views ]
No Breakthrough In Pattaya Dismembered Baby Case
Published : June 25, 2010 :: 12:06:27 [ 6,336 views ]
Jealous Man Commits Murder-Suicide Near Pattaya
Published : April 15, 2011 :: 14:04:28 [ 4,929 views ]
Raging Wife Hires Hitmen to Shoot Her Husband
Published : April 07, 2011 :: 09:04:26 [ 2,808 views ]
Injured Teenagers Survive The Shooting
Published : January 06, 2010 :: 13:01:09 [ 2,183 views ]
Pattaya Taxi Driver Threatens the Public with Revolver
Published : September 09, 2010 :: 12:09:53 [ 4,435 views ]
Brutal Meat Cleaver Attackers Caught After 8 Month Search
Published : June 18, 2010 :: 15:06:24 [ 12,830 views ]
Brit Robbed by Thieving Gang of Katoey’s in Pattaya
Published : February 09, 2010 :: 13:02:02 [ 14,686 views ]
British National Drugged and Robbed by Pattaya Prostitute
Published : July 27, 2010 :: 13:07:57 [ 6,663 views ]
Spiked Drinks Result in Robbery of Jordanians at Pattaya Hotel
Girl, 5, and politician killed as gunmen open fire at temple
19/07/2011
Published : March 26, 2010 :: 15:03:18 [ 13,073 views ]
Pattaya Sex Worker Drugs & Rips Clients Blind
Published : July 09, 2010 :: 17:07:45 [ 8,150 views ]
Indians Fall Victim to Pattaya Bargirl Drugging Theft
Gunmen attack temple crowd, kill 2
18/07/2011
Islamic school teacher killed
10/07/2011
City cabbie nabbed for robbing, attempting to rape passenger
02/07/2011 :
Suspects arrested for killing three tigers
30/06/2011
Another BJT canvasser murdered Bhumjaithai Party
27/06/2011 :
Wildlife smuggling trails go ever deeper
27/06/2011 :
Suban murder suspect arrested
26/06/2011 : Police have rounded up one of the suspects allegedly involved in the murder of key Bhumjaithai Party canvasser Suban Jirapunvanit on June 16.
Bombs, gunmen kill and maim in South
24/06/2011 : Two men working on an irrigation project were killed and five others injured in a bomb explosion at their dormitory in Narathiwat on Friday.
e rise of the order of assassins
20/06/2011 : A dissertation on "hitman agencies" has pointed out to the need to set up a special police unit to deal directly and more effectively with the growing number of professional killers.
PAO chief killed in daring attack
16/06/2011 : The president of the Lop Buri provincial administration organisation was killed and two others, his wife and secretary, wounded in a broad daylight attack by a gunman in Phra Nakhon district on Thursday afternoon.
Slain girl's parents live in fear
04/06/2011 : CHIANG RAI : Parents of a slain hilltribe girl have sought protection from police after the man charged with her murder _ the mayor of their tambon _ was freed on bail and a key witness in the case died mysteriously.
DSI urged to prioritise human trafficking
02/06/2011 : The Department of Special Investigations should make human trafficking cases a priority, says Eaklak Loomchomkha, chief of the anti-human trafficking non-governmental organisation Mirror Foundation.
Man gets life for bus stop murder
31/05/2011 : The Criminal Court on Tuesday sentenced a man to life in prison for murder, robbery and attempted rape of a woman hotel receptionist in 2009.
Democrat canvasser's house attacked
26/05/2011 : The house of a political canvasser for the Democrat Party in Bung Kum district was attacked by an unknown number of gunmen early on Thursday morning, police said.
Loan sharks defy crackdown
23/05/2011 : Loan sharks preying on low-income parents who borrowed from them to pay back-to-school expenses for their children are posing a headache for police.
Killers boasted of rape (Brit tourist gangraped and murdered in Thailand)
Sydney Morning Herald Jan. 11, 2005
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